by David Beckford | Jan 14, 2020 | Uncategorized, Voices from Recast
Interview of Princess Titus
Interviewer: 00:02 Okay. May I have you say your first and last name and spell it out too?
Princess Titus: 00:05 My name is Princess Titus, P-R-I-N-C-E-S-S, last name, Titus, T-IT-U-S.
Interviewer: 00:13 Can you give me two seconds and I’ll be ready.
Princess Titus: 00:16 One, two. That’s it. . I’ve been crying all day.
Interviewer: 00:26 You said you’ve been crying all day?
Princess Titus: 00:26 Yeah. I cry all the time. You’re going to hear it in the story probably. We’ll see.
Interviewer: 00:33 Okay. According to the map right there, do you currently or have you lived near this part? And if you did, how long?
Princess Titus: 00:45 Okay. I lived on Broadway for five years. I work on Broadway. I’ve worked on Broadway for the last six years. I’ve been in Nort Minneapolis for 22 years and primarily lived around the Broadway area.
Interviewer: 01:05 Okay. So the third question is, thinking back from when you first came to this area, what changes have you seen? Positive and negative changes.
Princess Titus: 01:10 When I first came to this area … I’m a refugee from Chicago running from the war that was going on there. When I came here, I was encountered with and greeted by white people who wanted to build community, and primarily they were, so to speak, saying that they were looking at the community as it being us. And then now I’ve seen an influx of people from other states who are also Europeans who have came in and look at community work as community they and not community us. That’s one of the negative changes I’ve seen. One of the positive changes that I’ve seen was compared to Chicago, there was always opportunities in Minnesota. They said it was a state for women and children, and then people said it was a state for white women and children because of how some legal things will go for black women. I encountered that, but I always found that there was something for my children to do, so when my boys were acting up in school in the winter time, I enrolled them in hockey, and being able to open up into that opportunity, being the only two black boys playing hockey, six years later it was a all black hockey team, and then there was a trophy in Harrison Park for hockey that year.
Princess Titus: 02:24 And that hadn’t been done within 10 years, so there’s always an opportunity, I feel like, in North Minneapolis for people to do something, people who still want to do something.
Interviewer: 02:34 Okay. What do you feel caused the changes you’ve seen in this area over the years? And why do you feel that way?
Princess Titus: 02:42 I think with the negative part with gentrification that happens in every urban area. I remember when North Minneapolis was primarily Jewish community. The Foodscape looked a little different, and now that we had a whole bunch of schools rebuilt some years ago, and then they closed them down because they were like we weren’t in that phase of gentrification yet. But I’ve noticed that I think gentrification being the plan in a lot of the urban areas because of the depletion of the soils and the natural resources out in urban areas where white people primarily live is. That’s why one one of those things has changed. The other reason on the positive change that I’ve saw is that I feel like now, or I think, or I’ve observed now that more of the businesses that are being birthed in North Minneapolis or in this community are by the people, for the people, like IWD, Individuals with Dreams, like Appetite for Change, like Standard Edition Women, like Abundant Life, all those are the people saying, “These are our issues and we can fix them ourselves, so here we are coming.” And we need human resources. We also need financial resources, but I think that we’ve hit our bottom as a people, and I think we got this, and I think we’re going to be okay.
Interviewer: 03:55 Okay. Okay. So we are gathering these stories to increase understanding between the city of Minneapolis and the community and the impact of historic discriminatory government policies and practices in areas like housing, transportation, economic development, and more. Examples
include housing and employment discrimination in the early 20th century, the war on drugs in the 1990s and others. What impacts have these policies or others had on the community in general and what impact have they had on you or your family personally?
Princess Titus: 04:32 So my approach to all of these things is … and I love the city. I love Joy and I love, and all of the people because they were once my community when I came here before they were officials within the city. But this is a narrative long overdue. We know why it’s happening. We know that the rhythm and the souls of the black people will not allow us to rise back up and offend the people who’ve done things to damage us. How it’s impacted my family personally, because I feel like if you’re talking about economics, education, politics, religion, sex, entertainment, war, and religion …. I already said religion, but all these areas in which we engage, everybody eats and we’re competing. We’re competing for things to validate our lives when really what we want is life, and in order to live, you have to eat. So we bypass how to care for our environment, looking at the air, the soil, the water as natural resources that will always be here. But the Earth is living too and we must care for her, and I never thought I would be a tree hugger. I’m a gangster from Chicago so I never thought I would be a tree hugger.
Princess Titus: 05:46 But if our soil is not good and our seeds are not sown right, and then our fruit will not produce itself, we can’t eat, and then we’re dependent on somebody else to do that, so I think the company-dependence in our relationship with the system. But from the food that I watch young people consume, because we notice, like you wake up in the morning on your way to school. You got $2. You go where? To the corner store. You get some chips, and a juice. That happens when you have 38 fast food restaurants and corner stores more often than it does in some areas where there’s different laws about zoning and how long restaurants can be open, and how many fast food junkie places can you have. So we’ve got some laws changed within our food justice work and in the environmental justice work that we’re doing. We’ve also got some places closed thanks to Roxanne O’Brien, our unsung hero who’s out here fighting with Northern Metals because they’re recycling cars in our community and they’re chipping up the cars, and spitting in our air, and then we wonder why our children have asthma.
Princess Titus: 06:50 we know that once we leave the inner city, those trash dumps and things of recycling will follow us where we are, and we know that it’s set up that way on purpose. Because of bad food, which is what I was told, I think that’s sometimes part of the reason why we have bad interactions with law enforcement. They eat what we eat. They go to the corner store. They eat at the corner store too. They just got guns and we don’t. I lost my son to gun violence July 4th, 2010, and we grew food. But the young people that he was around were, I feel like the people who are warred upon and they don’t even know they’re being warred upon. So that’s how it’s impacted my family personally. Those are the impacts that the policies have had on these communities, and I believe that the city knows them. We just have to stand firmly in calling it is what it is I the face of the people, even the ones who want to fix this problem with us, and look at community as still being us, that they have to hold …what do they call it? Get your cousins. They have to hold their other counterparts accountable.
Interviewer: 08:00 Oh, yeah. Okay. So what changes have you seen in this community that raise your level of stress or concern about its future, and what part does the city of Minneapolis need to play in relieving that stress?
Princess Titus: 08:12 I have seen children. My son is 25. My last living son is 25 and he has lost 42 friends, and when he lost his brother, that was the 4th of July, so this Thursday we was in Shiloh taking the pictures. And that following Thursday I was in Shiloh burying him. Him and all his friends were expected to just go back to school. When a shooting happens in a Caucasian community, therapists come out and children get to take a break, and they get t decompress. You’re just taught you got to go on with it, so I can’t be mad at you when you pick up a sack or a pint of lean or something like that to just see if you can silence the thoughts and the things that are going on in your mind. And I don’t think our school is funded by our city. Our schools are Minneapolis Public Schools. No. Our schools are funded by the state so different. But still, it says it’s Minneapolis Public Schools but it’s really funded by the state. But there has to be some type of intentionality around healing for those of us who are willing to continue to step out here and do the work with all the pain to drag behind them.
Princess Titus: 09:19 We have to let this go. Hey say it biblically. You have to confess your sins. Just say what happened. Say what you did. Everybody’s avoiding the truth and then they war up on us and they hide it in plain sight. And we act like we don’t see it, so it’s almost a nameless monster. But after you name that monster, then you can fight against it. You know the boogie man?
Interviewer: 09:39 Yeah.
Princess Titus: 09:40 He under your bed, right? He ain’t there when you turn the light on, right?
Interviewer: 09:43 No.
Princess Titus: 09:43 He gone when you turn the light on because you know that’s the boogie man. He in the dark. He in the closet. He in the bed. Now that you know that’s the boogie man, you know you just got to turn the light on, maybe get a teddy bear, maybe have somebody tuck you in. You know how to handle it. We’re avoiding it. We’re avoiding it. We’re dancing around in it. We’re trying to fix it with big words like intersectionality to see if we can get people to meet at a common place. If you eat, then you’re human because regardless of your zip code and the color of your skin, your food processes and comes out looking just like mine. And once we deplete the earth as a natural resource, North side all the way to … I’ve been to Turks and Caicos. Black people are in the same situation in every state after the diaspora, so regardless of where I go, when we can connect with people in that basic need … blacks, whites, if you just eat, and we can meet in that basic need and see that we too are human and have to commit our time to investing back into the earth and into each other, then maybe it’ll be different.
Princess Titus: 10:38 So that’s bigger than city but I just think some healing because I see so many babies that are doing what they’re doing, and I know they carry some pain. And I can’t respect your pain if I aint even respecting my own.
Interviewer: 10:54 You said that your son lost 42 friends?
Princess Titus: 10:57 Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Interviewer: 10:57 Was that friends from this community, like North Minneapolis?
Princess Titus: 11:01 In North Minneapolis. And I’m a refugee from Chicago so I left Chicago to avoid my son losing 42 friends, but I came to Minneapolis. I came to St. Paul when I came to Minnesota and they sent me to Minneapolis because they said, “You’re from Chicago. Go over there.” And I never heard anything like that. But then when I got here, they had free backpacks and I could line up and get a turkey, and then that lasted very short. I was off welfare in eight months and had my GED and was working a couple of jobs and since then I’ve got my teaching license and I’ve started a few businesses, so my Chicago hustle was able to put me a little step ahead of this. But then I could see the game too because I’m 44, so I’m in that generation where I knew that immunizations were real and everybody got chicken pox, and you couldn’t look in the sun or you’d go blind, and now none of that’s true. So who gets to tell me my truth? I was talking to the young people I work with and I asked them how old do they think they’ll be when they’ll die, and they said 25. Some said 16. So I remember hearing the narrative when I was younger that black men died 18 or 21. Now them babies is like, if I live to be 35, I’m good, but I probably won’t live to be 16. When did that become the expectation and the standard when I know there’s just as much gun violence in Hinkley as there is in Minneapolis? So the narrative that’s shared, that information that is coming from the city or whoever has to be approved by us because it’s not our true story, and it gets people to see that we’re … they believe it so then they think we’re different. When they approach you on the street they grab their purse and they cross. But I don’t feel that way when I walk up on you, and we haven’t rose up and warred against our oppression at all, because rhythmically we’re not those people. While I have hope for the future of this community because I totally believe that the youth are the truth and like IWD, I don’t know what it is but I’m down. I didn’t even want to come do this because I’m careful with my story. I have to allow you permission to carry my story and I have to know you and trust you to do that.
Princess Titus: 13:05 I carry people’s stories and I ask their permission to carry their stories when I go to the White House or when I go meet Keith in Washington like bro. This urban ag bill. We need land over north that we can buy and own. Not that I can work on and build up, and then have it gentrified from underneath me. So ownership. If we don’t own anything how do we … aren’t we a stolen people with a stolen land and a given culture? So if we can’t own any land, if when people come in and zone and do work in North Minneapolis, we just don’t need black, people working on that crew. I need track instruction to be in on a bid with preference because they’re local. I need the opportunities to make sure that the black dollar gets spent in the black community bettering black people more than not, because we have so many other people coming in and they’re eating. Everytime I look at the city and the streets being redone I’m like, damn, they eating. They eating. They eating. They eating. They eating. My people got to eat and when I say my people, I mean any people that eat food and think that I’m their people.
Princess Titus: 14:05 If you don’t and you see me as different and separate because of my views and opinions, then you’re not my people, but you get to choose. So everybody’s invited in until you by actions separate yourself out. And that’s when you get to see what is deserved for a black baby is different than what’s deserved for a white baby, and sometimes it’s so internal that people just can’t sort it out. They don’t know that I think you lazy just because I’m looking at you and I don’t think you doing nothing because you sitting there. No. I feel like y’all working hard. Y’all just started this business in September. And that’s why I have hope because if we can invest into the younger ones, not necessarily y’all, but like the 11 and under. Showing them something different, letting them start their own businesses, then they grow up to be after 13 young people are done with park board sports. They off into high school. You can’t play sports unless your grades are good. Am I telling the truth?
Princess Titus: 14:56 So then you meet up on the corner, and when you and your guys get into it with the kids on the next corner, now it’s beef. Then a couple of people, we lose them and their mothers lose they mind and they stay in the house. I wasn’t staying in no house. Everybody was going to see me hurt and I’ve given a whole bunch of people permission to hurt outwardly. It doesn’t take anything away from you because you have this pain. My son was 16 for two weeks. Two weeks. And it was beautiful and the children were caught so I could still do my work in the community, but when they went to jail, I didn’t feel like I had won. I felt like I had lost and I felt like there was more work to do. I felt like I lost three men’s lives, so that’s what gives me hope. I think the youth are the truth. And they told me that. And when you give young people a platform on which they can operate within their power, you can’t take it back. Y’all got the answers. Y’all don’t look like it because y’all pants is cut up and y’all rock a curly hair, and you got your bling. You don’t look like it.
Princess Titus: 15:50 You look like you’ve been advertised for me to think you on some garbage, but I know y’all got the answers because y’all tired and we’ve hit our bottom, and there’s nowhere to come from the bottom but up.
Interviewer: 16:01 Okay. What part does the city of Minneapolis need to play in creating a more hopeful future for us?
Princess Titus: 16:09 Allowing us opportunities. You got redlining rules. I can’t buy a house in certain areas. I went through that. Nine months pregnant, I went through that and they bought me a house, and gave me a bad deal. And then when everybody lost they houses I was just scooped up into that. At the same time of losing my son, I was just scooped up into that. If we don’t have access to some of these buildings that cost so much money … what’s the lady’s name? Chante from All Washed Up, the laundromat on Lowry and Penn. She had $30,000 of her own money. She had a house paid off so she had collateral. She had a felon. She couldn’t get a business loan. You know what I mean? So it took all this time for them to get five lenders to match the amount that she had to build out this laundromat so she could have a business so she would need a job to create some revenue and job opportunities for people in the community. That shouldn’t have been that hard. Why do I have to show up and be better than everybody, like double better than my white counterparts, and then still not get the same treatment?
Princess Titus: 17:22 The city has to value a life for a life. The way that black men are being treated by the police without impunity, no consequences, that’s just unheard of. And if the shoe was on the other foot, we would be held accountable so the city has to be accountable and responsible to what they say they value, to the same people who pay tax dollars, because every time you buy something, it’s tax on it, right? So you paying taxes regardless of if your money came from welfare or hustling. You paying taxes. They getting they cut, so they have to invest back into us. They have this disproportionate relationship in everything. I think Minnesota ranked number one over Tennessee and Mississippi on how blacks are rating compared to the white counterparts. But who says they’re the standard? What’s our standard? What do we want? So cooking and eating and talking with the community, this storytelling part, and asking people what they want is one piece. But when people haven’t ever seen anything other than what they’ve seen, how do they dream? Individuals with Dreams. How do they dream?
Interviewer: 18:31 So these last three questions is just like little short [inaudible
00:18:37] questions. You ain’t got to delve deep down if you don’t want to.
Princess Titus: 18:38 Okay.
Interviewer: 18:41 So when you think about this area today, what impacts do you still see from these historic government policies?
Princess Titus: 18:51 I see the people fighting and I see the system doing what the
system do.
Interviewer: 18:54 Okay. So how would you describe the relationship between the city of Minneapolis and this community over the years?
Princess Titus: 19:05 I think it’s gotten better because of the people that we have in positions of power over there. Like I said, Joy, Julie … even having … what’s his name? Jeremiah … you know. Some of those people, Sean. You know. Just people I know that I know from the hood. I used to give Keith a ride in my old Caravel when he was at the Urban League, so people that I know I can relate with that I’ve broken bread with are now in those positions so I think we’re headed on the right track because they carry our narratives, and they knew our children. And when our whole hood grieves, it impacts them. When our whole hood grieves and these people are working the city that don’t live in the city, they just go home. It’s not the truth. It’s just ours and we’re left to dress it up and make it look … did it look okay?
Princess Titus: 19:53 Dress it up and make it look okay and get back to the work.
Interviewer: 19:56 Okay. What are your expectations of the city of Minneapolis related of this community? To what extent do you trust the city of Minneapolis to deliver on those expectations?
Princess Titus: 20:11 I raise a eye to everything and I feel like even with my young people, I tell them wrong information all the time because they’ll believe me, and then I teach them how to do their research and your research just ain’t Google. It’s talking to your counterparts, your auntie, your mom, your elders, your homies, seeing what people think about it. Do I trust that they’ll do it? That’s always been my question with politics, like somebody run for office and they say, I’m a do X, Y, and Z, when is the date that I get to go to your review and say he did half of X. I don’t know why that he was doing Y. And is Z coming next year?
When do we get to come back and say? And then sometimes their timelines aren’t even right. We got the 2040 plan. You heard about that? The comprehensive plan for Minneapolis, the 2040 plan?
Interviewer: 20:58 Mm-mm (negative).
Princess Titus: 20:58 So where Minneapolis is going to be in the year 2040. And they have like this hard deadline of when they are done taking feedback. I’m a have to go knock door to door or probably do my community organizing at the two and the fourth to get the real people who are being impacted by the issues out of their trauma. I might have to meet them in their trauma and to get them to the meetings because when you’re done taking feedback you’re going to move this agenda anyway and we’re kind of being written out of it, the way it reads to me. There’s laws. I think there’s not laws, but rules about how it can be written and even the verbiage in there, so play them word games with yourself. Come to the people and ask the people what they need. And if you want them to trust you, cook and eat and talk with them, it brings that family feeling. People tell you what they feel like they want or need. They even hold they selves accountable to it because they can offer. Even if they set up a equal situation, we still in a place where we haven’t dealt with our pain, so could we even capitalize on those opportunities? So do I trust them?
Princess Titus: 22:06 I would say yes because I would want to project that into the future. But I’m always going to have four, five plans in the bag on my own.
Interviewer: 22:13 All right. What part do you feel like you could play in making this community right here on this map more hopeful?
Princess Titus: 22:23 Currently, I’m the founder of a couple of different organizations, Appetite for Change, Standard Edition Women. I sit on the board of Abundant Life and Pretty Girls Club. I’m looking now. Do I sit on the board of the Wedge or South side Family Charter School? And that’s over South and that’s over South. Do I sit on the board of the Council on Black Minnesotans or whatever it’s called now? Where do I position myself to make sure that I’m the only black in the room? Because until there’s that first only black in the room, you don’t get more. We have to be at the table or we on the plate. So that’s the message I carry to make sure that whatever happens happens. We applied for this RECAST funding and we didn’t get it. We applied because there was a gun incident at the block party we threw right here in front of Shiloh. And it was peaceful all day but a young man had a weapon because he was afraid because he’s on Broadway, and he was jumping and singing and it fell, and somebody was injured. And our children never got to unpack that.
Princess Titus: 23:22 But the type of youth organization I run is where we found out somebody else got the funding. We just wanted to participate because we knew we all needed healing as well. So even if they didn’t all get chose to tell they story, I would like to ask them some of these same questions. And is this really going to help with the healing? Because this was about trauma, so if it’s about starting a process for the city of Minneapolis, they could fund it and get somebody some programs to run something. That might be cool. I feel like that’s a given, though. That’s what they good for doing, going, yep. We helped you create this situation. Want some money so you can go fix it? We’ll take the money and go fix it.
Princess Titus: 24:06 Wouldn’t you take the money and go fix it?
Interviewer: 24:06 Yeah, I’d rather fix it myself.
Princess Titus: 24:08 But you can fund it. You can make sure I stay in them 13s. Any other questions?
Interviewer: 24:14 I do. Where you get the information about that 2040 thing?
Princess Titus: 24:20 The 2040 com plan? I work with an environmental justice coalition with Sam Grant and James Trice and Roxanne, a couple of hard hitters who do air, water, and land, and Catherine and Micheal Chaney from Project Sweetie Pie. So we had to read the 2040 com plan. It’s 97 areas of interest. It’s just unreadable for me. It’s a lot and they’re accepting feedback, but we’re doing something different. And then even with the accepting feedback, you submit it anonymously and then the city says that they’re not getting feedback from the fifth and fourth ward. How do you know if it’s anonymous? So do I trust them?
Interviewer: 25:00 All right. Thank you for this part. Just because it’s … yeah. So thank you for …
Princess Titus: 25:07 Thank you.
by David Beckford | Jan 14, 2020 | Uncategorized, Voices from Recast
Interview of Portia Jackson
Interviewer: 00:33 Okay, so the first question is may I have you say your first and last name with the spelling too please.
Portia Jackson: 00:39 My name is Portia Jackson, and it’s P-O-R-T-I-A-J-A-C-K-S-O-N.
Interviewer: 00:56 So referring to this map right here, have you lived in this area, do you live, or…
Portia Jackson: 01:03 I live there now.
Interviewer: 01:05 How long have you lived there?
Portia Jackson: 01:05 I bought a house on 15th and Bryant three years ago.
Interviewer: 01:11 Okay, okay, so thinking back from you first moving to this area, what changes have you seen? Can I just get one positive and one negative change.
Portia Jackson: 01:18 Well, I actually have lived off and on in north Minneapolis from, we move here from Chicago in September, September 1992.
Portia Jackson: 01:28 So I lived off and on here for 25 years. One positive, one positive thing that I think when I think of this neighborhood in north Minneapolis is just the community. It is reminiscent of what I was used to living in Gary and Chicago. You know, just having, being able to go outside and you know, kick it on your block and not having to, you know, go to the mall or something like that. I think we chose areas that, you know, people where we knew, people that were like us so we had that comradery and it helped us to kind of get more solidified in this cold, cold place, that is Minnesota. So I think that’s great, that the sense of community.
Portia Jackson: 02:11 So negative things are, I just think the thing is just the stereotype, like not the actual thing that happened, but the things that people think, because you know I’ve worked in a lot of different places, I used to work in Washington County up until like two months ago, and you know, they go oh you live in north Minneapolis, and they just see there’s like a war zone and just like, it’s nothing like that. It’s my home, it’s where I live, it’s where I have my kids, you know, it’s where I have my dogs, it’s where my mom lives, and you know we chose very intentionally to buy over here because we wanted to combat gentrification as much as we could, so yeah, the one thing I think is negative is actually some of that, you know it’s just a mindset and not actually a negative.
Portia Jackson: 02:53 If you’re here and actually in the communities.
Interviewer: 02:55 Right, so, what do you feel caused those changes that you’ve seen in this area? And like, after you answer that, can you tell me why you feel like that?
Portia Jackson: 03:06 Well the changes, well the biggest changes from when we first moved here til now is that north Minneapolis used to be a lot whiter than what it is. Cause the black people, we lived on 31st and Oliver, and across the street all of our neighbors owned the homes, all of em were white, and I just remember that, and you know, that was weird for me cause coming from south side Chicago and living in Gary where there are no white people really at all except for teachers and doctors.
Portia Jackson: 03:32 It was just kind of odd and then over the years it’s become, you know that area that I lived in, has become more of a, you know, a ghetto for a lack of a better term. I don’t think it’s a ghetto at all but just you know, lower income people and housing isn’t as nice as it used to be and a lot of it has been torn down. So I think some of the changes that I see now are that, you know, there are a lot of us here and that a lot of us are still buying homes in Minneapolis, they’re trying to kick us out, they’re trying to price us out but we’re still standing strong and staying here.
Interviewer: 04:12 Right.
Portia Jackson: 04:13 Which is great, and it’s, yeah.
Interviewer: 04:16 Okay so we are gathering these stories to increase the understanding between the city of Minneapolis and the community on the impact of historical discriminatory government policies and practices in areas like housing, transportation, economic development and more.
Portia Jackson: 04:35 Uh huh.
Interviewer: 04:35 Examples include housing and employment discrimination in the early 20th century…
Portia Jackson: 04:39 Uh huh.
Interviewer: 04:39 The war on drugs in the 1990s and others…
Portia Jackson: 04:42 Uh huh.
Interviewer: 04:42 What impacts have these policies or others had on the community in general?
Portia Jackson: 04:49 Well its funny that you should ask because I actually work in housing, I am the program manager for PRG, for their home ownership advising services. We are located in south Minneapolis but we build most of our houses and we have most of our houses in north Minneapolis. I actually bought a PRG rehab house on 15th and Bryant three years ago. So, and the other thing about that is, in my profession I also have ran a home buyer’s club that is for historically black women in partnership with BWWA and Kenyon McKnight High, so we actually have two different sessions, one that started in November one that started in March and the first thing that we did and the whole purpose of us focusing on that particular population was to kind of let people know, black, let black women know that you don’t necessarily not own a home because it was just a choice, there’s a system that was set up for you not to own a home. Like it was just set up for you, it wasn’t for you.
Portia Jackson: 05:45 So that’s why, you know it may not be prevalent, you might not see, you know, these things say oh you know, you see check cashing places and you see rent to own and contract for deed, but you don’t see straight up do you want to buy a piece of land?
Portia Jackson: 05:59 So that’s something that I, even though I was working in Washington County when I was doing it, which is miles away, I can to north Minneapolis to have this home buyer club that was six weeks long, we made sure that we had professionals that came in and looked like us, so most of the realtors and loan officers, and closers and things like that were black women, just so that they could see that, you know, there was redlining and there was reasons why certain neighborhoods are a little poorer or darker than other ones, just because that’s the way it was laid out.
Portia Jackson: 06:33 And what, you know, I wanted people to know is that most times they’re thinking I want to get out of here, I wanna buy in Wrentham Park, I wanna buy in Robinsdale, I wanna buy in
[inaudible 00:06:43]
, and my whole thing is, no you want to buy here. You wanna buy here because this is where you are, this is where your roots are, you know, north Minneapolis is right near downtown, like we are in a great spot. Where I live and then north, is a great spot to be and I know that because there’s a house that sold two blocks away from me for 480,000 dollars.
Portia Jackson: 07:02 So, it’s just I want people to take pride in where they’re at, and purchase where they live, and you know, raise their children here. Because, you know, even though we all got bunched in here because of not so great things, because of redline and government practices that kind of discriminate against us, you have to make the best of it, you make the best out of everything else, you know, we take rotten peaches and make peach cobbler. We take the worst part of the pig and make chitlins, like we just, you know, we make lemonade out of lemons all the time. And I feel like even though this started as something that was to keep us from being in the better places, we can make where we’re at the best place possible.
Interviewer: 07:46 Do you feel like they had impact on you or your family personally?
Portia Jackson: 07:49 Aw yeah, cause, yeah, because when I grew up my mom didn’t own a home, my dad did but it was back in Gary so that’s different, you know it’s just different. So here, I just never even thought about it, even as an adult, I’m like I’ll rent it’s fine, it’s cool, that’s just not for me, I’ll never be able to get a loan from a bank, I’ll never be able to borrow that much money, mortgage be too expensive. And at some point, you know, I was receiving Section 8 and they got to the point they’re like, well your Section 8 voucher amount is 1250, like you gotta pay 1250. I said well thank you for your, you know, all the stuff you give me but now you can move on cause I’m paying 1250 I should be able to do private market or buy or whatever.
Portia Jackson: 08:29 So then we went to private market for a couple of years, and that was expensive you know we were paying 1500 dollars to live in a 4 bedroom in south Minneapolis which is very nice, it was a nice neighborhood, but I’m thinking if I can pay this my landlord bought this house for 120, why am I paying him double for what he’s paying for his mortgage. So I started to reach out to agencies that dealt with home ownership, one of the agencies is Billwelth Minnesota, which is in north Minneapolis -shout out to David McGhee. So that’s where I actually got my mortgage from and I bought my house from PRG which develops property in north Minneapolis. So I think that, Minnesota, Minneapolis, [inaudible 00:09:12] County is taking a real stake in saying that we do need to develop, we do need to have green homes north, we do need to have these things for people to stay in the community. We do need to make sure these are only available to people under 80 percent A.M.I. whatever the case may be, and it should be affordable for them to buy. I think that was very intentional, and I think it was great that that happened because without that without having those programs without having the mortgage product that I ended up getting in to, I wouldn’t be able to buy at all and I definitely wouldn’t be able to buy the size of house that I have, because I have five children, there were five bedrooms, 2,000 square foot with a huge lot.
Portia Jackson: 09:49 So, we wouldn’t be able to do that in south Minneapolis, so yeah.
Interviewer: 09:54 Okay, okay. So what changes have you seen in this community that raise your level of stress, or concern about it’s future?
Portia Jackson: 10:00 Gentrification, with a capital G, and an exclamation point at the end.
Portia Jackson: 10:05 Like I said, house sell for 480,000 dollars somebody bought it for 160 and sold it for almost half a million dollars. Which I understand that you have to make a profit, you know, and I’m part of my neighborhood association and this person actually is part of my neighborhood association, so you know we have emails and things. An email came through and was just like, you know, you took an affordable 160,000 dollar home that somebody could have bought and lived in as a family, you essentially flipped it and sold it for three times what you bought it for.
Portia Jackson:10:36 That bothers me and the response to me was, well this house, you know, people use code words, well this house was never meant for people for affordable housing. This house, what this house was built in 1907, so 110 years ago they weren’t thinking about what’s going on now.
Portia Jackson: 10:53 So just because something was intended for a certain population or intended for somebody at this time, doesn’t mean that things don’t change, neighborhoods change and then now this house, in north Minneapolis is 160,000, I believe that it woulda been better suited for someone that is from the neighborhood to go in and buy it. I don’t know who bought it, I’m hoping that it was somebody that is from the neighborhood but most people I know don’t buy 408,000 dollar houses.
Portia Jackson: 11:18 So, to me that’s an issue because I don’t believe that anybody that comes in and does that is gonna take advantage, not take advantage, but just be immersed in the actual community. Yeah you’re gonna be immersed in my neighborhood association because they make it they have wine and cheese parties and all those great things, but it’s not you know, them coming to Shiloh, them having their kids do stuff at [inaudible 00:11:43], like they’re not doing that kind of stuff, that’s not what they’re doing, so.
Interviewer: 11:47 Right, so what part does the City of Minneapolis need to play in relieving that stress?
Portia Jackson: 11:51 I think the City, because of where I work, and I do home ownership advisement so I help people get ready to buy houses, I help them get out of foreclosure things like that. We also do development and we used to develop a lot more houses than we do now because the money isn’t there. Because even though there’s cheap lots, they talk about all these vacant lots in Minneapolis, north Minneapolis especially that are very cheap, if you were to build a house on those lots you couldn’t sell the house for what you built it for. So we can spend 275,000 dollars a house on a house but for the people that we want to live in it we couldn’t sell it for more than 190,000 dollars. So that meants the City of Minneapolis, [inaudible 00:12:27] County, somebody, the state, needs to come in and give us those gap funds so that we are able to do those things for people that need it.
Portia Jackson: 12:37 They even say well if you don’t build new you can just rehab. My house is rehabbed and it cost just as much as it did to build a brand new house.
Portia Jackson: 12:45 So, it’s like the money, we need money.
Interviewer: 12:49 What gives you hope for this future in this community?
Portia Jackson: 12:53 I think young people like you, you know, doing things that are positive. That are, actually looking at issues and saying you know what, I think we got a way to figure this out. Cause you always need somebody fresh and new cause you know like me, I get jaded I get cynical after a while cause you just live through stuff you live through stuff and after awhile you just like ain’t nothin gonna change, it’s always gonna be the same blah blah blah blah blah. But I think just having young people that don’t have that experience of always being pushed down that have the optimism, I mean you have the world at your fingertips. We didn’t, I didn’t even have that 20 years ago as a teenager, so I just think that having the young people to really be able to be creative and flourish in their community and are supported by people and hopefully being funded by people as well to do good work. I think that’s the greatest thing.
Interviewer: 13:45 Okay, what part does the City of Minneapolis need to play in making more hope for the future for us?
Portia Jackson: 13:51 Just really listening to the community. And not just the folks that have the loudest voices cause you know, my association is very loud and they have a lot to say about not having multifamily dwellings being built on their street and things like that. But not just the people that come to the meetings, go to the people that work all day. Cause when I’m out working all day at 5 o’clock at night I’m coming home I’m not coming to the meeting, I don’t wanna do all that. But reach out to those people in any way you can, I don’t care if it’s Facebook, if you can go visit their door, if you talk to the kids and give them something to give to their parents, whatever the case may be just talk to the people that are in the community and not just the people that have the loudest voices.
Interviewer: 14:28 Right. Okay so these last three questions, are top of the mind, you don’t really have to dive that deep.
Portia Jackson: 14:36 Okay.
Interviewer: 14:37 You can tell me if you want to…
Portia Jackson: 14:37 You’re like look, stop talking so much lady.
Interviewer: 14:39 No, I’m saying you want to, go ahead…
Portia Jackson: 14:39 No, it’s all good.
Interviewer: 14:39 But if you don’t want to, you know…
Portia Jackson: 14:39 Right.
Interviewer: 14:44 Just letting you know.
Portia Jackson: 14:44 Okay.
Interviewer: 14:45 So when you think about this area today, what impacts do you still see from these historic government policies?
Portia Jackson: 14:51 I still see slumlords, I still see dilapidated buildings, I still see more white folks owning than black folks, even though this is our community and I see businesses that we frequent all the time that are not owned by us, you know, beauty supplies and chicken joints and all that, like we do, you know, Hook’s is right there, it’s always boomin, like people always gonna get some shrimp, you know, chicken, but we don’t own those things. So it’s just, I think, its just been so much, we’ve just been bogged down by pressure so much that we just don’t even think about doin those things.
Portia Jackson: 15:25 Like we have other communities that come here and they do all kinds of stuff and we just have this, you know, the man won’t let us do it type mentality.
Portia Jackson15:31 And it still is prevalent today.
Interviewer: 15:36 How would you describe the relationship between the City of Minneapolis and this community, north side over here?
Portia Jackson: 15:42 I feel like, I think north siders love north side. Like they ride or die north siders, they love it. I lived north and south, but I do love the north side and I feel like, you know, just cause, I think more of the police presence, because when I think of the city I think of the police, just because you know, the City is the police that’s who employs them. So I think it’s still tension, I don’t think we trust the City. I don’t necessarily trust the City to do what they say they’re gonna do or to put the money where they need to, you know Jacob, the mayor, Frye right, Jacob Frye? He said you know he was gonna give 50 million dollar for affordable housing and then a couple of weeks ago my executive director of my organization at work was there at some dinner and he kinda back pedaled a little bit.
Portia Jackson: 16:28 So it’s like, I need you to not only have a platform to stand on to campaign but I need you to continue having that same energy when you become elected.
Interviewer: 16:37 Right, right.
Portia Jackson: 16:37 So, yeah.
Interviewer: 16:39 So, if so, if you do, what are your expectations for the City of Minneapolis, related to this community? And you just said it, but I still gotta ask you, do you trust the City of Minneapolis to deliver those expectations?
Portia Jackson: 16:54 I do, like I said, of course I’m leery cause of just history and cities and politics and government, all that. But I do think Minneapolis is one of the cities that really does care about its people including black community. And its not, you know, maybe it’s not as big as I would like it to be, maybe it’s not as connected to the community as I would like it to be, but I do think that with the whole 20 year plan or 40 year plan or whatever they got, 20, 40 whatever the plan, something they got goin on now, that they’re talking about what they’re gonna be doing for the next 20 years. I do think that they, you know, you get out there and you say these things and you have to deliver.
Portia Jackson: 17:40 Its not back in the day where we just had newspapers and radio and tv, now everything’s on video, everything’s social media, if you said you gonna do something you gonna have to do it, or you gonna have to come and holla at somebody because you said you were gonna do these things and we are gonna take you to task and I think that that’s what we’re gonna do, so, I’m hoping that through this, through all these conversations and these different things that they’re changing to try to get people affordable housing and jobs and things like that, I hope that that works and I know that we’re going to make sure that if they say they gonna do something, we gonna make sure they do it.
Interviewer: 18:14 Alright, so do you trust them to do what they say they was gonna do?
Portia Jackson: 18:19 I do now because like I said it’s so much, so many people, so many eyes that if you don’t then its going to be a problem. Young people are seeing this and if you tell me you’re gonna do something, next time it’s time to get elected and you weren’t doing it, then we gonna do everything in our power not to elect you again.
Interviewer: 18:36 Right.
Portia Jackson: 18:36 So I really feel like, there’s a lot of eyes watching and a lot of people that are very passionate about these things and passionate especially about affordable housing in north Minneapolis.
Interviewer: 18:47 Okay, so, last question is what part do you feel like you could play in creating a more hopeful future for this north side area?
Portia Jackson: 18:54 Well what I’m doing, hey, I came all the way from Woodbury where I was working at and brought a home buyer club all the way to north Minneapolis, right here and the first one we did in breaking bread, the next one we did at the [inaudible 00:19:05] building, where E.C.M.N. is now
Interviewer: 19:07 Yeah
Portia Jackson: 19:07 They got a very nice meeting space so we use that space, so it’s like I am, my whole thing is education.
Interviewer: 19:13 Yeah.
Portia Jackson: 19:13 If you don’t know you can’t grow. So that’s why I start off, you know the curriculum started off with hey, this is redlining, this is what they did. They took a red and they, you know, they put a box around this and this is where we had to stay. So, and they also did this with the financial institutions, this is why you couldn’t borrow money when you know the war was done and they would do FHA loans and VA loans and GI bills and giving all these people that came home from the war this money and these houses, it wasn’t for us. Even though we qualified for every, like it was qualification was there, it wasn’t for us. Black people. So, yeah, I mean
Interviewer: 19:52 So basically getting out there, basically.
Portia Jackson: 19:53 Yeah, you have, you can’t just you have to be about it, you can’t talk about it you gotta be about it. Get out there do whatever you can, we had over 50 women graduate from the home buyer club and we had at least five people close on houses since November. And they were, and these women, you know, I don’t know if they would’ve went to a lender and asked for the money had they not come to home buyer club. Because I’m a counselor you can come to me and I can tell you hey you ready to do it.
Portia Jackson: 20:17 A lot of them was ready and just needed somebody to say it’s okay, like, I am there with you through the process and you feel like something is weird or janky, come holler at me, I’ll holler at them, I have no problem with being the bad guy. Cause I don’t want you to ever get in to a loan or something that is predatory. And that, you know, I want you to buy a house but I want you to do it the right way.
Interviewer: 20:35 Right.
Portia Jackson: 20:35 So that’s why I bring the education to the people so that they can feel empowered and know when they walk in the door, hey I want to pay 1200 dollars a month, I know at a 5.5 or 4.5 percent interest rate will get me 180. That’s what I want. Now you gonna try to give me 300 cause you wanna make this money, but I want 180 cause I wanna be able to be in this house next year and not be house poor and just working to pay for this house that I’m never in.
Interviewer: 20:57 Right.
Portia Jackson: 20:58 So that’s my whole thing is just bringing the education to people and just giving the community what it needs as far as affordable home ownership.
Interviewer: 21:05 Okay. So you play a big part. Alright.
Portia Jackson: 21:08 I try.
Interviewer: 21:11 Okay that was our last question.
Portia Jackson: 21:12 Cool.
Interviewer: 21:12 Again, my name is Lewis, nice to meet you.
Portia Jackson: 21:15 Thank you very much Lewis, I appreciate you.
by David Beckford | Jan 14, 2020 | Uncategorized, Voices from Recast
Interview of Ora Hokes
Interviewer: 00:02 May I have your first and last name with spelling, please?
Ora Hokes: 00:05 My name is Ora, O-R-A, Hokes, H-O-K-E-S.
Interviewer: 00:10 All righty. In reference to this map here in front of you, do you currently or have you ever lived in any of these areas?
Ora Hokes: 00:17 I have, and I currently do.
Interviewer: 00:24 Oh, I’m sorry. What are the areas, and how long have you lived… How long were you there?
Ora Hokes: 00:31 Well, currently I am… Let’s see. Currently, I am at 13th and Russell.
Interviewer: 00:44 I used to live on 13th and Upton.
Ora Hokes: 00:46 Okay. I’ve been there, I think 35 years. Okay.
Interviewer: 00:53 Wow. That’s a long time.
Ora Hokes: 00:54 Then, I lived at 901 Penn for probably about three years. I lived at 1426 Oliver, maybe about six or seven years, something. Time goes.
Interviewer: 01:20 Absolutely.
Ora Hokes: 01:20 Something like that. But, in that general area. And, let’s see. I lived in the Plymouth Townhouses. That’s at Plymouth and Humboldt. The neighbor across the hallway from me had a fire, and so I had to find a place to live, and I moved on Northway Drive in Brooklyn Center. But, I was determined. I worked in north Minneapolis, and so it was right on the bus line.
Interviewer: 02:00 Absolutely.
Ora Hokes: 02:01 But I was determined to find a place, and I contacted Nerq and they were dealing with housing. And so, that’s how I found the place at 901 Penn. I couldn’t wait to get back on the north side.
Interviewer: 02:21 That’s where you belong, absolutely.
Ora Hokes: 02:21 Yes. Yes.
Interviewer: 02:25 All right. Next question is, thinking back from when you first came to this area to today, what changes have you seen, positive and negative?
Ora Hokes: 02:32 The most changes that I’ve seen has been the removal of what you would call ma and pa shops. Okay? Right at the corner of Penn and Plymouth, we had a clinic, Dr. Thomas Johnson’s office. That was Francis Barber Shop that was there. And with the removal of the clinic, well, we do now have Northpoint. But Dr. Johnson had a personal relationship, I think, with every resident that went to him.
Interviewer: 03:17 Absolutely.
Ora Hokes: 03:18 I always tell people, “You would pack a lunch. Because you might have an appointment, but you’d be there all day.” You got to find out everything that was going on in the community. And so, as they say, what a barber shop is for the update, that’s what Dr. Johnson’s office was. We had, where UROC is now, the shopping center. We lost that. I am a former staff of The Way Opportunities Unlimited, where the police precinct is-
Interviewer: 03:53 Now.
Ora Hokes: 03:53 … you know, now. And we had Young Brothers Barber, and we had Plymouth Avenue Bank. So, there has been… all up and down Plymouth Avenue, as well as Olson Highway, of course. You know, Sumner, Olson, quote, “projects,” is gone.
Interviewer: 04:14 Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Ora Hokes: 04:14 And we have on Broadway, a lot of different shops. You know, totally different. But what I’ve noticed most of all is that we have a lot of young people who seem to be wandering the street during the day, as opposed to in school. They look like school aged children.
Interviewer: 04:37 Absolutely.
Ora Hokes: 04:38 And I see a lot of moms pushing strollers, and I see them smoking with their children. I am an anti commercial tobacco advocate. Didn’t used to see that. And I see some young males now pushing strollers with their babies. And so, the transition and the change seems to be that we’re not a family as much as we used to be. We don’t know each other in our community. And there is not that, “Hey, how you doing?” You know, when you meet each other.
Interviewer: 05:21 Absolutely.
Ora Hokes: 05:22 And to stop and greet, and ask how things are doing.
Interviewer: 05:26 Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Ora Hokes: 05:26 Right now I’m using public transportation, and a lot of people talk negative about our young men, but this is what I’ve observed. You know they have on public transit, where the seats are supposed to be reserved for the seniors and handicapped?
Interviewer: 05:44 Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Ora Hokes: 05:45 I will see the young men get up if there’s a person on there.
Interviewer: 05:50 I was always taught that, as well. Being a young individual, I was raised by a single mother. She always taught me, regardless of where you’re sitting, what you’re going on, if an elder comes on, or if someone that’s handicapped comes on, you move.
Ora Hokes: 06:02 Yes.
Interviewer: 06:02 There’s no questions asked. And I’ve seen… I rode public transportation all my life, until I got my license last year.
Ora Hokes: 06:11 Oh, congratulations.
Interviewer: 06:12 Thank you. Thank you. So I definitely have experienced that, and I’ve experienced people who don’t get up. And that, in my generation, in my opinion, in my household, that’s disrespectful. So, I definitely understand that, as well.
Ora Hokes: 06:22 Yeah. And one of the things that I have not seen to move off of the avenue is the liquor store.
Interviewer: 06:29 Yup. Still there.
Ora Hokes: 06:30 Permanent. Full force. Full swing. You know that’s going on. So, you know. Our unity and our spirit. We’ve lost a lot of our nonprofits, and those kinds of things. But one of the things that I do know, and when I go to meetings and they ask where I’m at, I say, “Northside. Northside pride.” And folks are like, “Okay. I can say Southside.” You know? But, always letting people know that our activism is very strong. What has grown out of the elected officials that we’ve had, of the first? They came out of North Minneapolis, you know. And so, people don’t hear that story or tell that story, about all of the good things and the progress that’s going on.
Interviewer: 07:33 Absolutely.
Ora Hokes: 07:33 One of the things that I have not seen change is the upkeep of North High School’s ground. They will not put flowers there. Not even a dandelion that’s growing there. When you look at other high schools and other schools, they do have some kind of greenery. We don’t have that.
Interviewer: 07:54 Right.
Ora Hokes: 07:54 And so, there’s a neglect still that remains for our high school, that’s permanently in our neighborhood.
Interviewer: 08:02 Absolutely. All right. Moving on to the next question. What do you feel caused the changes you’ve seen in this area over the years?
Ora Hokes: 08:10 I think they’re due to the system. Elected officials. You know, we elect someone based upon their promise, and then when they get in office, they neglect us. I identify 55411 as 411. That’s emergency.
Interviewer: 08:32 Absolutely.
Ora Hokes: 08:33 The city of Minneapolis has tons of resource, the development and urban renewal, but they do not direct that much resource to north Minneapolis. I learned that the majority of landlords live outside of the state of Minnesota. So you can understand, when people drive by and they say, “Well, why don’t that person keep that house up?” Well, they’re renters.
Interviewer: 09:01 Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Ora Hokes: 09:03 We don’t have as much home ownership as we used to have. And so, when you have someone who is underemployed or unemployed, and trying to keep that rent, to keep a roof over their head for their children, and to take care of their medical cares first of all…
Interviewer: 09:27 Absolutely.
Ora Hokes: 09:28 Eh, your budget is a little slack.
Interviewer: 09:31 Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Ora Hokes: 09:32 And so, until the city of Minneapolis directs the money, the taxes that we pay to our neighborhoods, we’re going to see that blight in there. It’s people who do not live in near north, or come through, and I’ll see they may throw something out of their car window instead of… So, it’s not us who’s destroying. Sometimes folks come through, you know and I watch to see, “Okay. Does that person look like they living here,” no matter what ethnicity they are. But there are some things that can be done, to help and to strengthen us. When this facility, the University of Minnesota UROC, was coming in, the university is a research institute. It can help our businesses, our childcare providers, our homeowners. All of those kinds of things, and engage them in learning of how to do whatever is needed.
Interviewer: 10:42 Absolutely.
Ora Hokes: 10:42 So, we don’t get the resources, and so it’s limited resources.
Interviewer: 10:48 Absolutely. All right. Moving on to the next question. We are gathering these stories to increase understanding between the city of Minneapolis and the community, on the impact of historic discriminatory government policies. These government policies include housing and employment discrimination in the early 20th century, and the war on drugs is another example. What impacts have these policies or others had on the community in general? What impact have they had on you and your family personally?
Ora Hokes: 11:18 Well, the impact on my family… And I can just give an incident.
Interviewer: 11:24 Mm-hmm (affirmative)
Ora Hokes: 11:25 I have a son, and he and his friends were going to a house party that they had invited to. So, it’s fashionable that you arrive late, of course. He wasn’t driving. His friend parked round the corner, where parking was.
Interviewer: 11:41 Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Ora Hokes: 11:42 They’re walking to the place. As they’re heading there, people are running away from the place. So, by the time the police arrived, they get whoever they can. They’re asking them questions. They can’t answer the question. They haven’t even been into the party yet, so they don’t know what’s happening.
Interviewer: 12:00 Right. Right.
Ora Hokes: 12:01 Okay. So they take them downtown, question them. The police officers that question them began to tag them, and when they would see them on the street, they would pull them over.
Interviewer: 12:15 Wow.
Ora Hokes: 12:16 So, my son left and went to Atlanta, and stayed for about 15 years.
Interviewer: 12:24 Wow.
Ora Hokes: 12:26 That was the impact. The loss of my son. Because he was harassed just because, you know, “Well, since you didn’t give us the information we want, I’m going to make your life miserable.”
Interviewer: 12:37 Right.
Ora Hokes: 12:38 You know? And that’s unfair, and I know that happen to a lot of young men. But, I don’t know if you’re old enough to remember when the Minneapolis had the drug task force? It had to be abandoned, because they were doing more harm than the drugs were. We know that, as they say, we don’t have any pharmaceutical company. We don’t have any poppy fields. We don’t have any weapons manufacturing. So, the bringing in of weapons, drugs, and other illegal activity into our community has harmed. Now, one of the things that the state of Minnesota and Minneapolis forget, when they talk about African-Americans and drugs and crime… They forget St.Paul, and that it was crime city. That Elliott Ness from the FBI had to come. So, it was already built in with the criminality. You know, the James gang coming from the west up here. So they forget that, but then they want to attribute all crime and violence to us. Okay?
Interviewer: 13:54 Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Ora Hokes: 13:56 So, if you send me to prison, and I’ve got a record, and when I get out, you tell my parents, who live in subsidized public housing, that they cannot have anyone felon living with them or they’ll lose, and I don’t have a job, because I have a record, I can’t get a job, I can’t get a place to stay… So, what
alternatives do I have?
Interviewer: 14:24 Right.
Ora Hokes: 14:25 So, the system has built it in to re-criminalize people for that.
Interviewer: 14:33 Mm-hmm (affirmative). Absolutely.
Ora Hokes: 14:33 When you’ve done your time, that’s supposed to be it. We don’t have that advantage. And so we become stigmatized, and the cycle is repeated over again.
Interviewer: 14:49 Absolutely. Wow. That’s powerful.
Ora Hokes: 14:49 Yeah.
Interviewer: 14:52 Next question is, what gives you hope for the future of this community?
Ora Hokes: 14:57 Well, I live on hope. My faith is built on hope. I know who my creator is. I serve a risen savior, and I know that everything that’s happened, happens for a reason. The thing is, Ora, what are you going to do to make things better? So, each of us have to take an individual inventory. Each of us were given with certain gifts and talents to make a difference. Excuse me.
Interviewer: 15:35 All right. Unfortunately, that’s the last question I had, and we are out of time. Thank you so much for being able to speak with me.
by David Beckford | Jan 14, 2020 | Uncategorized, Voices from Recast
Interview of Michael Chaney
Michael Chaney: My name is Michael Chaney, C H A N E Y.
Interviewer: So, do you live in North Minneapolis?
Michael Chaney: I don’t live in North Minneapolis, I work and own property in North Minneapolis. But I’ve been an activist in North Minneapolis for about the last 40 years.
Interviewer: Oh wow, so basically you mentioned we’re doing this project on the City of Minneapolis wants to know, wants to connect, wants to get an understanding between the City of Minneapolis and the North Side. So thinking back, so you’ve been here for 40 years, so you’re very involved here, yeah-
Michael Chaney: Right-
Interviewer: Yeah, so what changes have you seen, positive or negative changes have you seen in North Minneapolis?
Michael Chaney: Well, I haven’t really seen much, the struggle today is the struggle then, struggle for identity, a struggle for artistic expression, a struggle for economic empowerment and so, that’s why I can say, I’ve been an activist in the 80s. I was the founder of the North-Side Juneteenth celebration.
Michael Chaney: In the 90s I started a project called the Video Brigade at North High and created training programing. In 2010, I created a project called Project Sweetie Pie.
Michael Chaney: North Minneapolis is going green, give us a call, and learn what we mean. We’re one sly urban blight, now sits luscious garden sites, gardens without borders, classrooms without walls, architects of our own destinies. Access to food, justice for all. So, I’m a activist, I’m an organizer, I’m a freedom fighter for the African American community.
Interviewer 2: I’m sorry, I’m not supposed to interrupt the interview, but I had to, it’s just that, you say you’re a freedom fighter, look at my tattoo-
Michael Chaney: Alright brother.
Interviewer 2: Yeah, yeah.
Michael Chaney: I like it.
Interviewer 2: I can’t wait to connect after this.
Interviewer: So the changes that we’ve mentioned, what do you feel caused the changes over the years in the community?
Michael Chaney: Well, like I’ve said, I don’t know if there’s been much change, you know the struggle today, the struggle continues, struggle that African Americans have had ever since they’ve landed on the shores of America, by forced coercion, and so a struggle for resources, a struggle for jobs, a struggle for access to capital. Minnesota leads the nation, and many disparities, it’s one of the lowest states in the country, around disparities, around education, disparities around health, disparities about home ownership.
Michael Chaney: And though there’s this façade of progressive social altruism, the reality, if you look at the facts, look at the numbers, you’ll find that it’s quite the contrary that African Americans in Minneapolis, and in Minnesota are not faring well, and it’s by design.
Interviewer: Can you tell me more about government policies, such as housing and transportation in North Minneapolis, and employment?
Michael Chaney: Well again if you were to go back, of course historically there was the home of the riots in North Minneapolis that was before my time here and even in Minnesota, but going back to leadership of guys like Spike Moss and folks that started the way, Vusi Zulu and folks that were again, organizers who saw the disparities then and lack of access, not only here, but across the country with either the Civil Rights Movement, and the assassination of Martin Luther King. Minneapolis was no different and folks were outraged, and lead toward rebellion to fight against those who have historically been oppressed against.
Michael Chaney: And so, it’s the same today, all these many years later, we have had some, there’s been maybe some opportunities here, programming, but by and large I would say that the circumstances, the situation from housing, may right now, there’s a real fear of displacement, of folks coming in and moving out the indigenous people from this community, African-Americans, communities of color.
Michael Chaney: There are those who really now want to gentrify and move forward to take over this valuable land as we sit overlooking Downtown Minneapolis. We can look at instance like the Homeland decree, and all kinds of examples of federal lawsuits that, going back into the 60s where there was red-lining and looking at housing covenants that in certain communities in Minneapolis only white folks only need apply.
Michael Chaney: So much of that same kind of processes, practices and policies, that are destructive and that are not helpful, do not give voice to the African-American experience.
Interviewer: Since I’ve seen you going back in time, can you tell me a bit about the war on drugs in the 1990s, what do you know about that?
Michael Chaney: Well, again, most of the work that I do, I see myself as a cultural nationalist so much of the work as the founder June 10th celebration in the 80s. Much of my work has really been to really celebrate the guests, the talents of the black experience, so I’ve been more focused on doing proactive rather than responding to things like police brutality, things like that I have been less, the fight against drugs.
Michael Chaney: Much of those realities are contrived and here to oppress black people, and so I’ve tried to celebrate our gifts, our talents and tried to build education and educational programming, youth programming. The food program here in Oak Park was something that I started here-
Interviewer: Oh wow-
Michael Chaney: In 2010, and so I have birthed ideas that can try to help support marginalized communities, people who are poor and oppressed. I have tried to do programming, come up with ideas to educate people and help lift them up and out of poverty.
Interviewer: Wow, what gives you hope about this community?
Michael Chaney: I love black people, so… that’s it.
Interviewer: Amazing. Do you have any thoughts in the closing interview?
Michael Chaney: Yeah, I would urge us all as positive, progressive African-Americans, that to realize that we control our own destiny and that just like the Maroons in the islands and freedom fighters all over the world, we must keep on, we must put up the fight to resistance and we must work to help to advance our race of people.
Interviewer: Well that’s it for the interview, thank you so much for your time and thank you so much for coming here.
Michael Chaney: And thank you.
Interviewer 2: Thank you so much sir.
Michael Chaney
by David Beckford | Jan 14, 2020 | Uncategorized, Voices from Recast
Interview of Marcia Johnson
Interviewer: 00:21 Yeah, just to see if you’ve lived in that area.
Marcia Johnson: 00:26 That’s why I was trying to find it, 9199 Broadway. Where’s that at?
Marcia Johnson: 00:51 Right here, this district 55411 over here.
Interviewer: 00:55 How long have you lived in this area?
Marcia Johnson: 00:59 Off and on it’s a been a steady 3 years, but I’ve come up here at least 15 to 20 years. Yeah because I’m originally from Wilmington, Delaware. Yeah, my area code’s 55411.
Interviewer: 01:23 Back to the second question. You said about 15 years, right?
Marcia Johnson: 01:29 Yeah, but I’ve been steady where it counts where I get a paycheck and all that stuff now, past 5/6 years, but back and forth. You know, when you stay at someone’s house more than 5 to 30 days you become a resident, cause you got mail coming there so that’s been over 10/15 years.
Interviewer: 01:49 Before we dig too deep, can we just have you state your first and last name, and spell it for us.
Marcia Johnson: 01:53 My first name’s Marcia. My maiden last name is Harden, cause I got married up here of course. I’m doing a lot better. I got married 2013, which is now I use my married name Johnson.
Interviewer: 02:16 Congratulations on the marriage.
Marcia Johnson: 02:17 Thank you. I married my childhood sweetheart. My first and my last. We’ve been together since we was kids.
Interviewer: 02:27 Thinking back to when you first moved in this area to date, what changes have you seen?
Marcia Johnson: 02:31 Oh my gosh. It’s been a lot of changes. I’m not ashamed to say when I first moved here I used to get high. I used to smoke, I used to sniff dope. I used to smoke crack. Crack really never been a twist of mine, but I can remember, going down on Lake street and place. They would set up in Wendy’s restaurant and actually smoke the pipe, while people ordering. Now it used to be Sears over there in the parking lot, like the living dead. People walking around, and I just remember a whole lot of stuff. A lot of stuff is cloudy from being high all the time.
Marcia Johnson: 03:12 A lot changes been made, and then the changes really was made when I changed myself. See that’s the thing, when people as a individual change they self, then that’s when the changes are being made in your neighborhood. Because you don’t see nothing change until you change yourself, the individual self, you have to change. You can live in the same household for 30-50 years and see a person keep sticking stuff in they pocket and you know they’re a thief, where if he stops sticking it in his pocket, then he’s no longer a thief no more. You understand, you have to change. I started seeing changes, I’m gonna say, past, let me see when I stopped, about 8-9 years ago, since I stopped using. I no longer seen people getting high, walking the streets and stuff, because I wasn’t a part of that life anymore, but every now and then you still see, you know the look, you ain’t stupid. I still see some, I can identify some of the ones still out there and to me this is the, where I’m from you have a better chance of making it up here and doing something with your life. This is a very good state.
Interviewer: 04:37 I know you mentioned changes in what you saw on Lake street and Wendy’s. What about over here? What’s your experience with those types of what you’ve seen?
Marcia Johnson: 04:49 This is really crazy. I can remember when I first got up here my husband which I married was my childhood sweetheart. We’re from the same state. He came up here because his job brought him up here, and I was always in denial, “No I’m not using or doing it.” I came up here, I was always back and forth because the drugs wouldn’t let me sit still. When I finally decided to sit still, when I started backing away from it, I wanted to get out late one night. We had stayed over in northeast at the time. I don’t know nothing about Minnesota, but for some reason I knew that I could come on Broadway over here and buy drugs. That’s crazy, from hearing people talking, being on the bus, watching people. I’m a watcher. I kept it in my middle mind there and next thing you know, I didn’t know nobody but I found myself going by McDonald’s over here and bought what I wanted.
Interviewer: 05:54 McDonald’s where?
Marcia Johnson: 05:55 On Broadway.
Interviewer: 05:55 On Broadway?
Marcia Johnson: 05:56 Yeah, right there where they got Little Caesar’s pizza and stuff. Yeah, buy whatever you want. I was just shocked that it was so easy. But it’s changing now because they’re not hanging out. Let’s say it’s change in the past couple years. You get more customers outside of McDonald’s than you have inside of McDonald’s. You did! And it was sad because most of it was workers, people that go to work in the morning. State workers, you’d think they were going in to buy a coffee and stuff, but those were the ones that were using and selling, believe it or not. You could pick out the ones that didn’t fit being in there because either they was too young or way way too old. You’d say okay they’re doing drug or they’re selling drugs. Broadway has changed a lot. We would go for rides and stuff, you would see the girls walking up and down the street at night, and even for me, we would take the co-workers and drop them off and you’d be hollering up and down like, “Oh my god!” So it changed a lot.
Interviewer: 07:11 Next question. What do you feel caused the changes over the years?
Marcia Johnson: 07:14 Say that again?
Interviewer: 07:15 What do you feel caused the changes over the years?
Marcia Johnson: 07:20 From good to bad? What do I think caused the changes? It’s the individual that causes the changes. If you’re tired, if you get enough people that’s tired, when they wake up from whatever it is they’re doing, and they’re tired, then that’s when your changes are being made. Because you know right from wrong, it’s just sometimes it’s harder when you still have other people in that same group still pulling, it’s like pulling teeth. If you not ready to stop doing your shenanigans, or whatever it is that’s keeping you from being part of society, it’s going to be hard to have a change in your neighborhood. That’s for anything. It’s like hitting a brick wall.
Marcia Johnson: 08:14 Cause you’re gonna have people rebuild, or all kinds of stuff, where if you get enough, that’s why they’ll say they got this thing where they say white people can live together and do better than black people in their neighborhoods or whatever, it’s because they all know how to cut out the shenanigans and want the same thing in their neighborhood. You got a handful of people over here who want to be able to go outside and have their children play in the park and have a nice time. Then you got this side over here, they want their children play in the park have a nice time, but they still want to get high and hang out in the street, but you all know if you’re getting high what bring that problem, the prostitution and the drugs and everything else. You can’t mix that with children too, so that’s what bring the problem. But then when you get tired and you step over here and you get enough to come over here, then you got less and less of that will start spreading out, and then you start seeing changes in your neighborhood, because half those people that you see standing around I guess ain’t there. That’s how I see it.
Interviewer: 09:23 What changes have you seen in this community that raise your level of stress, or concerns about the future?
Marcia Johnson: 09:30 They getting younger. I know you can’t help from the way you was raised cause that was not your choice, but at a certain age you’re able to make a decision for yourself to know right from wrong and they’re getting younger with the violence and not finishing school. Everybody knows a good education is the only thing you have going for yourself. That’s the only job you have as a young adult anyway, is your education. It’s to maintain that to have anything in life. So it’s just getting worse, they’re getting younger.
Interviewer: 10:22 We’re gathering these stories to increase understanding between the city of Minneapolis and the community on the impact of discriminatory government policies and practices i the area like housing, economic development, and more. Examples include housing, and employment discrimination in the early 20th century. The War on Drugs in the 1990’s and others. What impact have these policies or others had on the community in general?
Marcia Johnson: 10:49 As far as low income housing and people living in them? Sometimes it’s the worst because most people they have a… it’s like being cliché, they think, my grandma used to say, “Just because you live in the projects don’t mean you have to act like you do.” I don’t know.
Interviewer: 11:11 Have you seen any type of discrimination in housings or economics that have impacted your life or your family’s life?
Marcia Johnson: 11:21 I think there is a lot of that here. But it’s not the people that funding or the foundation of it, it’s the people in among themself that’s doing it. It’s like okay, if you’re not Somalian you can’t live here. But it’s not the government that’s doing it, it’s the people themselves, you know what I’m saying? We’re separating ourself, you know what I mean? That’s the only way I can put it.
Interviewer: 11:55 What hopes do you have for the future of this community?
Marcia Johnson: 11:59 That it gets better. That young people have to realize that if you go to school, you get a better education, what’s on TV is called entertainment, you don’t make it part of your life. I don’t know. I just would rather for young people to just grow up and respect theirself. If they respect theyself, I’m quite sure that everything else would be respected around them, if they know how to respect theyself.
Interviewer: 12:39 What part does the city of Minneapolis needs to play in creating a more hopeful future?
Marcia Johnson: 12:44 I’m sorry?
Interviewer: 12:44 What part does the city of Minneapolis can play in to make the community better?
Marcia Johnson: 12:50 Better? I don’t know. What part can play in to make the community better? Actually, any part that terrible I guess. To me, none of it’s terrible, I mean really I don’t see none of it’s terrible. It’s just the people, the individual that’s there, you know.
Interviewer: 13:11 When you think about this area today, what impact do you still see from these historic government policies?
Marcia Johnson: 13:22 What do I think about the area now, today? I don’t know, sometimes it has it’s good days and it has it’s bad days. So it’s like I don’t know.
Interviewer: 13:37 How would you describe the relationship between the city of Minneapolis and the community over the years?
Marcia Johnson: 13:42 I think some people are being more heard now, from what I’ve
experienced being up here. My people being heard, being taken more serious now.
Interviewer: 14:07 What are your expectations of the city of Minneapolis related to this community?
Marcia Johnson: 14:15 I don’t know. Well actually, what they need to have more, well see that’s a hard thing to say because what people are asking for is actually here, like things for people to do, it’s just that people need to get up and go analyze the things here that’s offered here. “You gotta have more parks, you gotta have more programs,” all that stuff is actually here. Can’t lead a horse to water unless it’s thirsty.
Interviewer: 14:54 To what extent do you trust the city of Minneapolis to deliver those expectations?
Marcia Johnson: 14:56 Say that again? I’m sorry, can you rephrase that? I didn’t understand.
Interviewer: 14:57 How much do you trust the city of Minneapolis to live up to your expectations?
Marcia Johnson: 14:58 It’s alright with me. I feel like I did what I supposed to do with myself.
Interviewer: 15:04 So how much do you trust them?
Marcia Johnson: 15:06 The state of Minnesota?
Interviewer: 15:07 The city of Minneapolis.
Marcia Johnson: 15:27 It’s okay. If it was up to me, everything that’s offered here is up to me, so it’s alright with me. I just hope that anyone that was a user or just down on their luck or whatever or just analyze the things that’s here cause it’s here and you just gotta use it.
Interviewer: 15:53 Take advantage.
Marcia Johnson: 15:53 Yeah, take advantage and just go ahead and do what you’re supposed to do for yourself.
Interviewer: 15:58 So what part do you feel you can play in creating that more hopeful future?
Marcia Johnson: 16:04 Well, just as ordinary as they are. I hung out in streets like they did, I been through a lot of abusive situations growing up, and I’m no different from the next person but I utilize the things that are here offered to you.
Interviewer: 16:25 So you feel like you don’t have nothing special you can give out to the community to make it better? Like if you could have a chance to have a upper power in the community. What would you do?
Marcia Johnson: 16:42 I don’t know. Because what constantly just tell a person… I don’t know what could I do. Because basically I don’t know. Just let a person know, I’m just as ordinary as they are, just let em know that they can make it. Making it ain’t mean like you rich and famous and all of this, but you can be content, you know, ordinary content. Live within your means.
Interviewer: 17:25 Well that is the end of the interview. Thank you for your time, and I hope you enjoy the rest of your day.
Marcia Johnson: 17:25 Okay.
Interviewer: 17:25 Thank you so much.
Marcia Johnson: 17:25 Alright. I feel weird.
